You would think that people would support an American company made rifle. And help it to be successfull. Why are people so stuck with the pricing? Not to many complain about the $3,000 Belgian company, American made SCAR. Your thoughts
Why are they so many ACR haters?
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Everybody misquotes the price, I can find several on gunbroker for $1900. Thats alot less than other "so called" high end ARs. I think other people have alot of stock in AR products and might even feel threatened by a new platform that outperforms theirs.
[quote author=acrforever link=topic=99.msg498#msg498 date=1275751188]
Everybody misquotes the price, I can find several on gunbroker for $1900. Thats alot less than other "so called" high end ARs. I think other people have alot of stock in AR products and might even feel threatened by a new platform that outperforms theirs.
[/quote]
That's a great point, it makes alot of sense.
Everybody misquotes the price, I can find several on gunbroker for $1900. Thats alot less than other "so called" high end ARs. I think other people have alot of stock in AR products and might even feel threatened by a new platform that outperforms theirs.
[/quote]
That's a great point, it makes alot of sense.
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21 Posts
I think it basically boils down to this. Some, probably many, have perfectly legitimate reasons for having little interest in the gun, but I find that most of the people who are most vocal about how *insert newest product here* is garbage or how the company that manufactures that item is "screwing us over" just enjoy complaining.
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109 Posts
There seems to be quite a bit at stake here. Alot of money and politics.
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If I had to guess why the controversy, it would be because Magpul designed the concept and it was good. People loved it. Magpul wanted it to be extremely affordable. That was one of the big selling points. People had expectations of $1500 or maybe even as much as $1800. But when Magpul licenses the rights to the gun to a 3rd party manufacturer, who obviously wanted to redesign it and then the price is announced at SHOT and is almost twice the original projected cost given that over half of the gun is polymer, people get upset and it puts a bad taste in their mouth that will linger for quite some time.
In the AR world - most consider BM to be a lower end manufacturer of the platform. Hence when people were excited about Magpul making the ACR and then they have BM make it, they again get upset. Firearms are like sports. People take it personally.
BM and Remington are fine manufacturers.
I also think people are asking the question: What does the ACR do better than the SCAR, Piston AR/M4, XCR, etc. This, at least in my opinion, is why the AR/M4 platform has such a hold on the market. People are not looking for evolutionary, but rather revolutionary.
I think the ACR is a fine gun. So is the SCAR. So is the XCR. So is the AR/M4. You should buy what you want and not worry about what other people think or say. If you own an ACR, anyone who badmouths it is jealous.
In the AR world - most consider BM to be a lower end manufacturer of the platform. Hence when people were excited about Magpul making the ACR and then they have BM make it, they again get upset. Firearms are like sports. People take it personally.
BM and Remington are fine manufacturers.
I also think people are asking the question: What does the ACR do better than the SCAR, Piston AR/M4, XCR, etc. This, at least in my opinion, is why the AR/M4 platform has such a hold on the market. People are not looking for evolutionary, but rather revolutionary.
I think the ACR is a fine gun. So is the SCAR. So is the XCR. So is the AR/M4. You should buy what you want and not worry about what other people think or say. If you own an ACR, anyone who badmouths it is jealous.
I agree with ACRFan, I paid a premium price for my black basic but that doesn't matter to me. I enjoy it the more I shoot it and don't regret buying it. I have the basic black model, which I prefer over the enhanced model. Added a AAC blackout 51T flash hider, it's very accurate with my 69gr. match loads........3/4" at 100yd with a 3pwr. IOR dot scope. Thinking about a camo color, Krylon should work. Ran 20 rounds of molycoated 69's for break in and have been shooting bare 69's ever since and the bore looks great. The bore coating they use seems to work very well. Anyway to each his own. 
[quote author=ACRFan link=topic=99.msg505#msg505 date=1276090980]
If I had to guess why the controversy, it would be because Magpul designed the concept and it was good. People loved it. [glow=red,2,300]Magpul wanted it to be extremely affordable[/glow]. That was one of the big selling points. People had expectations of $1500 or maybe even as much as $1800. But when Magpul licenses the rights to the gun to a 3rd party manufacturer, who obviously wanted to redesign it and then the price is announced at SHOT and is almost twice the original projected cost given that over half of the gun is polymer, people get upset and it puts a bad taste in their mouth that will linger for quite some time.
In the AR world - most consider BM to be a lower end manufacturer of the platform. Hence when people were excited about Magpul making the ACR and then they have BM make it, they again get upset. Firearms are like sports. People take it personally.
BM and Remington are fine manufacturers.
I also think people are asking the question: What does the ACR do better than the SCAR, Piston AR/M4, XCR, etc. This, at least in my opinion, is why the AR/M4 platform has such a hold on the market. People are not looking for evolutionary, but rather revolutionary.
I think the ACR is a fine gun. So is the SCAR. So is the XCR. So is the AR/M4. You should buy what you want and not worry about what other people think or say. If you own an ACR, anyone who badmouths it is jealous.
[/quote]
Since when has Magpul had anything extremty affordable? $229 for a freaking buttstock?
I always wonder why people seem to quote the "peoples gun" thing. Magpul is good stuff, dont get me wrong, but shits expensive.
BTW, loving my ACR 600 rounds down. bought 600 more today.
If I had to guess why the controversy, it would be because Magpul designed the concept and it was good. People loved it. [glow=red,2,300]Magpul wanted it to be extremely affordable[/glow]. That was one of the big selling points. People had expectations of $1500 or maybe even as much as $1800. But when Magpul licenses the rights to the gun to a 3rd party manufacturer, who obviously wanted to redesign it and then the price is announced at SHOT and is almost twice the original projected cost given that over half of the gun is polymer, people get upset and it puts a bad taste in their mouth that will linger for quite some time.
In the AR world - most consider BM to be a lower end manufacturer of the platform. Hence when people were excited about Magpul making the ACR and then they have BM make it, they again get upset. Firearms are like sports. People take it personally.
BM and Remington are fine manufacturers.
I also think people are asking the question: What does the ACR do better than the SCAR, Piston AR/M4, XCR, etc. This, at least in my opinion, is why the AR/M4 platform has such a hold on the market. People are not looking for evolutionary, but rather revolutionary.
I think the ACR is a fine gun. So is the SCAR. So is the XCR. So is the AR/M4. You should buy what you want and not worry about what other people think or say. If you own an ACR, anyone who badmouths it is jealous.
[/quote]
Since when has Magpul had anything extremty affordable? $229 for a freaking buttstock?
I always wonder why people seem to quote the "peoples gun" thing. Magpul is good stuff, dont get me wrong, but shits expensive.
BTW, loving my ACR 600 rounds down. bought 600 more today.
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1,587 Posts
I followed the saga of the Masada since the beginning. I got really tired of the BS on barfcom.
1. The "people's rifle"? Um, no, Magpul (Rich in fact) only stated they would offer it for sale commercially.
2. "Where did this fixed stock come from?" Once again, if you read the initial ten or so page info release on the Masada they even listed back then three stocks- fixed, folding and PRS style- but I guess all you did was look at pictures and touch yourself.
3. "Bushmaster will f' it all up." Once again, go back to that info release, Magpul never really had the intention of distributing the rifle itself. Magpul then was small and still really isn't all that big even after their successes. They could have pulled it off I'm sure but would be struggling. The rumor was that S&W approached them at SHOT '07 wanting to go to market right then and there. For whatever reason the deal didn't work out. Although, S&W was really starting up their M&P line (which has taken them to great levels of success) at around that time and the Masada would have been a fine addition for them. At the time I wouldn't have seen it, but now, S&W would have been maybe a better choice, in my humble opinion.
As far as getting it to market, well, Magpul was working improvements and new production processes have to be considered. It's not gonna happen overnight. The price point sucks but if they're gunning for a contract they're only doing what businesses do I 'spose. I may not be a fan of the politics and BS behind the scenes but the rifle is pretty sound.
1. The "people's rifle"? Um, no, Magpul (Rich in fact) only stated they would offer it for sale commercially.
2. "Where did this fixed stock come from?" Once again, if you read the initial ten or so page info release on the Masada they even listed back then three stocks- fixed, folding and PRS style- but I guess all you did was look at pictures and touch yourself.
3. "Bushmaster will f' it all up." Once again, go back to that info release, Magpul never really had the intention of distributing the rifle itself. Magpul then was small and still really isn't all that big even after their successes. They could have pulled it off I'm sure but would be struggling. The rumor was that S&W approached them at SHOT '07 wanting to go to market right then and there. For whatever reason the deal didn't work out. Although, S&W was really starting up their M&P line (which has taken them to great levels of success) at around that time and the Masada would have been a fine addition for them. At the time I wouldn't have seen it, but now, S&W would have been maybe a better choice, in my humble opinion.
As far as getting it to market, well, Magpul was working improvements and new production processes have to be considered. It's not gonna happen overnight. The price point sucks but if they're gunning for a contract they're only doing what businesses do I 'spose. I may not be a fan of the politics and BS behind the scenes but the rifle is pretty sound.
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Didn't know that S&W was approached about building the ACR. That would have been interesting. 8)
Personally I like the rifle. Mine shoots well, it's accuracy is good enough for what I do. I like the fact that eventually I will able to change things on the rifle without a gunsmith.
I would buy it again based on my expierences with it so far.
Personally I like the rifle. Mine shoots well, it's accuracy is good enough for what I do. I like the fact that eventually I will able to change things on the rifle without a gunsmith.
I would buy it again based on my expierences with it so far.
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1,587 Posts
[quote author=cjt50 link=topic=99.msg654#msg654 date=1283012371]
Didn't know that S&W was approached about building the ACR. That would have been interesting. 8)
[/quote]
It was all internet theory and conjecture but I remember seeing that S&W approached Magpul at, or right after, SHOT '07. I wouldn't know the first thing if it was true or not.
All the little upgrades are nice but I liked the original Masada more than the current ACR. The charging handle location was better, in my humble opinion of course. I liked the integral front sight. Alas, those are but small changes in the big picture and am happy that it has finally seen the light of day.
Didn't know that S&W was approached about building the ACR. That would have been interesting. 8)
[/quote]
It was all internet theory and conjecture but I remember seeing that S&W approached Magpul at, or right after, SHOT '07. I wouldn't know the first thing if it was true or not.
All the little upgrades are nice but I liked the original Masada more than the current ACR. The charging handle location was better, in my humble opinion of course. I liked the integral front sight. Alas, those are but small changes in the big picture and am happy that it has finally seen the light of day.
I just read a thread on Calguns.net with a bunch of ACR haters. I swear I almost felt like I was going to remove the bookmark from my browser and move on.
What really upsets me are people bashing on it and they haven't even held the weapon or fired it.
Also is a 1/9 barrel twist really that bad for someone that's going to use 55 grain bullets?
What really upsets me are people bashing on it and they haven't even held the weapon or fired it.
Also is a 1/9 barrel twist really that bad for someone that's going to use 55 grain bullets?
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I killed an entire thread on The High Road by posting a positive assessment of the ACR----lots of "I hate the ACR and I'd hate it worse if I'd ever seen one" and "it's too expensive!!!' stuff. The SCAR is not too expensive, though, no not at all.
At any rate, I dropped that thread right to the bottom of the screen and off. It's hard to counter an experience based post with an "If only...".
-----krinko
At any rate, I dropped that thread right to the bottom of the screen and off. It's hard to counter an experience based post with an "If only...".
-----krinko
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I would not call myself an (ACR) hater! I don't understand how BM thinks they can sell a cadilac for the same price as a mercedes. The design is top notch. The developement that Magpul put into it is awesome. I have never seen or used a Magpul product that wasn't effective in it's intended role. I have over 40 Pmags I use a miad grip on my army M-4 and use the MS2 sling and bad lever on it as well. If I were building an AR I would invest in one of their stocks as well. What I'm concerned about is it's execution and price not the design. If magpul would have chosen almost any "quality" manufacturer (Colt, Sig, FN, HK, LWRCI, LMT, ARMALITE, etc.etc.) and kept the price around $2000 for the enhanced model I'm pretty sure they would have dominated the entire tactical 5.56mm market. There would be almost no need to build anymore AR's of any type in 5.56mm or 6.8mm. This would also force many manufacturers to build more interesting stuff than just a plain jane AR.
The time has come for new bad ass weapons such as this but in this economy your only going to sell to ritch folks at those prices.
If I'm paying for as close to perfection as possible I'm buying as close to perfection as possible and I don't think BM can produce that right now. I think I'll stick to this one until they lower the price a bit (1500-1800)
The time has come for new bad ass weapons such as this but in this economy your only going to sell to ritch folks at those prices.
If I'm paying for as close to perfection as possible I'm buying as close to perfection as possible and I don't think BM can produce that right now. I think I'll stick to this one until they lower the price a bit (1500-1800)
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I do see some previous "haters" coming around, now that the initial shock of price has sank in, and the Enhanced model is available.
Prices have come down a bit too. I've seen some enhanced models in the $2200-2300 range online, down about $200 dollars from a couple of months ago
Prices have come down a bit too. I've seen some enhanced models in the $2200-2300 range online, down about $200 dollars from a couple of months ago
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The thing we have to remember is the system has only been available for just over 7 months for the basic version. Between the unrealistic promise of $1500 back 3 years ago, (today's MSRP is double that) The bad rep that Bushmaster has, (I own 1 and have had no problems with it,) and the not so stellar release of it has turned alot of heads away.
Whenever I'm at the range busting caps with mine, I always get asked "What's that?" I explain, offer to let shoot and just sit back observe the smiles on the faces when they are done. I know one of the folks that tryed it bought one. I think after shot show next year we will see alot more stuff available for it from other places, hopefully.
8)
Whenever I'm at the range busting caps with mine, I always get asked "What's that?" I explain, offer to let shoot and just sit back observe the smiles on the faces when they are done. I know one of the folks that tryed it bought one. I think after shot show next year we will see alot more stuff available for it from other places, hopefully.
8)
Less than 1% of firearm owners will ever own an ACR. The rifle is not for everyone, and was not designed or manufactured with everyone in mind. However, there are a few people that can appreciate a fine weapon, and spend their hard earned money to buy it. Of these people some are "early adopters", a category of people that always want the latest technology. Some people buy it for the prestige of owning an expensive firearm. Whenever these two groups begin purchasing an item that is beyond the means of the average gun owner, a certain amount of resentment is unavoidable. This battle is repeated with almost every consumer product like, Rolex vs Timex, Porsche vs Corvette, the list goes on and on.
Just because other people hate it, does not diminish the value or desirability of the item. When greater than 99% of the population does not own something, the staggering amount of non-adopters will always out voice the actual owners.
Now, if the consensus of the actual owners of the item are skewed as the ratio of owners to non-owners, then there is a problem. If you own an ACR, then by all means enjoy it. You will never appeal to everyone, no matter what the item is. If you listen to what other people say that have not operated, disassembled, or even held an ACR, then their comments should weighted accordingly.
Even my opinion is only worth what you paid for it, nothing...
Just because other people hate it, does not diminish the value or desirability of the item. When greater than 99% of the population does not own something, the staggering amount of non-adopters will always out voice the actual owners.
Now, if the consensus of the actual owners of the item are skewed as the ratio of owners to non-owners, then there is a problem. If you own an ACR, then by all means enjoy it. You will never appeal to everyone, no matter what the item is. If you listen to what other people say that have not operated, disassembled, or even held an ACR, then their comments should weighted accordingly.
Even my opinion is only worth what you paid for it, nothing...
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