[Tommys229]

I've been planning on purchasing an LWRC M6A3 in 14.5". But what are your thoughts...a DD Mk18 or the M6A3? My biggest thing is the DD doesn't have the piston system. Any thoughts or experience to share to help me in my purchasing decisions? I'm sure you can all tell by the threads I have started about different guns I wish to buy...I'm about to drop a lot of money on several different weapon systems.

I have heard nothing but amazing things about both manufacturers. I read one article about a M6A2 (the only difference between the A2 and A3 being the adjustable gas block and the A3 has a better bcg) in which 19k rounds we shot, and then accuracy tests began with sub-1moa groups still being held. I've seen the stress tests DD puts their weapons through and it's amazing.

So basically, any info and opinions and experiences you can all share would be greatly appreciated

 

[SDDuc996]

I am NOT a huge fan of the piston. I had one, deployed with it and though it ran great, never saw it do anything better than DI other than it being easier to clean though heavier. I only bought Dana's 10" 416 upper because it's what our best are using. Then I hear a 50/50 mix of fans and haters of the 416 by the end users. The haters wish they could just go back to their MK18's.

That settled it for me. I'm keeping my 416 upper, but you can't go wrong with a DDMK18.

 

[Tommys229]

well i am a fan of a piston system. its really the thing that holds me back on DD. They are a little bit cheaper than LWRC it seems but again, the piston system...

 

[ThunderDan19]

I have two LWRC rifles, an M6A2 and an M6AK (5.45x39), and I really like both of them. The A2 runs flawlessly and I rarely have to clean it (and when I do, it's little more than a boresnake and wipedown of the BCG). IMO, you can't go wrong with LWRC. Their rifles typically run flawlessly with pretty much any ammo you feed them, and if somehow you have a problem, their CS is some of the best around and they will take care of you on their dime. I can't speak for the DD as I have no experience with it, but I will tell you that I never intend to own another DI gun (gotten too spoiled by the pistons ).

 

[ACRFan]

I can speak from the perspective owning a DI gun and a piston gun. If I had to choose, I would go with a DI gun every time. Let me clarify a bit first. When I say this, I am strictly speaking about the AR-15/M4 platform only. My stance on this is as follows. The AR platform was designed from the ground up to be a DI system. There were plenty of piston systems prior to the AR that stoner could have looked to. However, Stoner chose the DI system for its reliability. Yes that is right. A DI gun by nature is to be more reliable when properly maintained. Yes I said properly maintained. If you run an AR15 with quality and prperly spec'd parts and you maintain it and lube it properly, it will run just as flawless as any piston system if not more reliably.

The rule of thumb within mechanics and engineering is this: the more parts it has the more chances for failure. This is true with any Piston system but more true with a piston AR as the AR has to be so dramatically modified and redesigned to counter the piston operating systems shortcomings. Things like carrier tilt, short stroking, etc. This requires the use of proprietary parts which can be hard to find or become too expensive.

Nothing wrong with owning a piston AR. Nothing at all. But I have to ask, why a piston AR? If you are going to buy an AR, buy a real AR. One that is DI.

I know you have all heard the so called "horror stories" about how the DI system is "unreliable". I encourage you all to read this article before passing judgment on the original Stoner DI gas system in the AR.

http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/filthy14_oct10.pdf

 

[BoovarBjarki]

I second ThunderDan. I have an A2 and A3. These rifles eat anything, reliable, don't get hot, don't get dirty and don't require much maintenance. I prefer the piston over the di. The old argument about not being able to find spare parts come SHTF for a piston is lame imo. If you look at the LWRC rifle(current models) you will see it is made with some beef and innovations that will keep it from failing. With that said I have ordered from them a bunch of spare parts just in case but have not needed them. I prefer my A2 over my A3 because it feels lighter up front and the gas system on the A2 pretty much does what the A3 does automatically. I have over 10k rounds through the A2 and have cleaned it only twice with 4k rounds using no lube to see how their lubricious coating handled and it was perfect, however I applied lube after as an extra precaution.

Now after all that said I plan on getting a DD rifle some day soon but if I had to only pick one it would be LWRC.

 

[BoovarBjarki]

I can speak from the perspective owning a DI gun and a piston gun. If I had to choose, I would go with a DI gun every time. Let me clarify a bit first. When I say this, I am strictly speaking about the AR-15/M4 platform only. My stance on this is as follows. The AR platform was designed from the ground up to be a DI system. There were plenty of piston systems prior to the AR that stoner could have looked to. However, Stoner chose the DI system for its reliability. Yes that is right. A DI gun by nature is to be more reliable when properly maintained. Yes I said properly maintained. If you run an AR15 with quality and prperly spec'd parts and you maintain it and lube it properly, it will run just as flawless as any piston system if not more reliably.

The rule of thumb within mechanics and engineering is this: the more parts it has the more chances for failure. This is true with any Piston system but more true with a piston AR as the AR has to be so dramatically modified and redesigned to counter the piston operating systems shortcomings. Things like carrier tilt, short stroking, etc. This requires the use of proprietary parts which can be hard to find or become too expensive.

Nothing wrong with owning a piston AR. Nothing at all. But I have to ask, why a piston AR? If you are going to buy an AR, buy a real AR. One that is DI.

I know you have all heard the so called "horror stories" about how the DI system is "unreliable". I encourage you all to read this article before passing judgment on the original Stoner DI gas system in the AR.

http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/filthy14_oct10.pdf

I agree with ACRFan. The DI's are equally reliable if made with quality parts. My choice of piston over di is simple because the required maintenance is much lower, fair better with sound suppressors(IMO) and can shoot more reliably when soaked with water(wont do it myself but you never know).

 

[SDDuc996]

One of the best things about being an American... we have these choices.

If you hate cleaning them and don't mind shelling out for spare parts, get the piston. I don't mind cleaning, (which I do less and less nowadays as long as it's lubed) and have a pretty good amount of parts saved up. Parts I can get from any issued weapon if Skynet becomes self aware.

 

[bigdog2003_99]

i have to agree, i went through my piston phase and now i have a di mk18. the recoil pulse of the piston is more sharp than the di version too

 

[soapboxpreacher]

First what are you using this rifle for? Is it recreational? Deployment? etc? This might push you in a different direction. The LWRC have seen quite a few security contractors that prefer them. The barrels do last and they do hold true but they do a process NiCorr treating...it is basically a nitrite process to the metal that extends the life and is done to quite a bit of the other components on the LWRC as well. Now the DD also has an amazing barrel! So this gets difficult. In my opinion the barrels almost become a wash. DI or Piston...this is a massive debate that I do not want to get into...for it has gotten me into trouble elsewhere. But for the piston more so the LWRC, it has the adjust gas regulator which will allow the M6A3 to shoot ammo that in some middies (DI) that might not cycle or cause short stroke because of differences in ammo pressure...223 vs 5.56...someone please correct me if I am wrong here, this is also a major debate...which I once again dont want to get into. The there is also Carbine vs Mid-length gas systems. One cycles lower pressure better then the other but one also has better recoil then then the other. To make matter worse there is gas port size...OH BOY...it never ends in guns does it? This might be why designers and engineers looked at the AR platform and said...ok lets do something else now.

But really, I agree SDD...we have choices and everyone has their pick. I like a lot of different things. But I look at a rifle in a lot of different ways. First but not in order of importances weight and with weight balance. Handling it especially for hours it becomes clear that a pound is a difference. However for the recreational shooter this isnt as big of an issue. The LWRC because of the piston will feel more forward heavy...nose heavy. This does bug me but that is because I am so use to a DI balance that I notice it. The DD will have better weight and balance then the LWRC. The LWRC is a fine rifle and has had years to refine itself and has become a great piston ar. It isnt my favorite but that is my preference. Many say the M4 was never meant to be a piston and maybe they are right but things change. One piston ar that does have my attention is the PWS MK114 for the weight and balance are excellent. It is also a long stroke piston compared to a short stroke which is what LWRC has. Issues of carrier tilt happens in Pistons...I am yet to hear it actually stop a rifle from functioning but it does cause wear. But with that said other parts on a piston or di will break before the rubbing of the buffer tube would cause some significant issues. I do feel that a piston ar will run cleaner (Actually I dont feel I know...cleaning both after training, instruction, or range the pistons BCG is cleaner...the chamber, etc. however, the dirt is in a different spot). Also, I believe...witnessed that in certain conditions the piston is better suited and therefore more reliably. I got catch in a discuss mixed with some Jack and got put in the penalty box at one of the other forums for this argument. I like a piston design but I also like AKs. Which are more abundant world wide then an AR and have a better record of reliability. But they still have there problems too. They are cheaper to manufacture, they are easier to used and require less maintenance. But they are also less accurate. Once again this is a whole other argument again and I would get myself in trouble. But understand my views, one of my closest friends builds AKs for a living. I hear about his rant about the AK every time I visit the shop or we hang out. I have learned everything I know from him...and everything I have shot he was right on the money about what to expect. It never ends.

Sorry for straying here, In the end this is gonna be your rifle. Try and shoot what you are interested in if you can. I did and found out some of the things I thought I would like I didnt and the ones I had built up a negative feeling towards like the SCAR I actually liked. However the SCAR also fit me well, I adapted to its sights well, I mounted it well, the list went on. The rifle felt more natural to me then any other...and I shot it well!!! I liked the weight and balance as well.

The two you are looking at are excellent and you do not tend to hear too much bad about them. They have both been around and have been used for sometime so much of the growing pains are not as present in either more so the DD. This really comes down to whether you want a piston or a DI. There are obviously some differences, we talked about weight and balance. Accuracy...once again a wash. But then there is recoil, they will both feel different. I like the recoil better in a DI then a piston. My SR556 feels way different then my SR15...and the SR15 will be getting a BC 1.0 shortly so it will feel even more different. But my SR556 will shoot ammo my SR15 wont (SR556 piston SR15 DI). Reliability...I believe both are...we briefly covered that as well. Cleaning does suck and it does take longer on a DI but I like the recoil better which in turn helps me shoot a little tighter group...the BC will tighten this up even more. But you can add a BC (Battlecomp to either). Just my 2 cents...dont want to start a debate that will make people upset.