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If a new rifle is ordered, and that's if, what you'll probably see is a "drop in" upper replacement and maybe some other little upgrades to keep the M4 going until the "next best thing" comes along. That's my guess.
 

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As I understand it, there are actually two competitions - one for an improved (read drop in) M4 and another for the improved carbine (like the one a while back, trying to get in right this time I guess). Then the benefits will be weighed to decide if the improved carbine is warranted or just improved M4s fielded.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think I was more intrigued by the lawmaker's associations, locations, relationships with the various manufacturers. Remington/Schumer, etc... It will be interesting to see what comes out on top once the dust settles, but there is a distinct possibility it may not be the best regardless of what platform we - personally - are rooting for.

I wouldn't be surprised to a "patch" made to the M4s, but you never know...
 

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I dunno. I guess I don't consider politicians twisting the process to make sure their home districts get extra benefits to be anything particularly surprising or new...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I dunno. I guess I don't consider politicians twisting the process to make sure their home districts get extra benefits to be anything particularly surprising or new...
OK, nevermind. My moment of duh is over. Not sure why you bothered to comment, but OK.
 

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He's trying to get that post count up

I tell you, if they did a 6.8 upper swap on the M4, it wouldn't hurt my feelings, then we could get 6.8 in bulk
 

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^^ i agree, from what i've heard from some sf buddies they liked the 6.8, "it worked very well" was an exact quote iirc

the 5.56 is good but imo the 6.8 is better
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
He's trying to get that post count up

I tell you, if they did a 6.8 upper swap on the M4, it wouldn't hurt my feelings, then we could get 6.8 in bulk
Trackin. "Bulk" is what I had in mind when I got this rifle and I'm comfortable with the M4 platform.

However, I'm all for what will be produced in bulk. I will flex as required, but, for me, existing rifle cartridges have all - literally - proven themselves to do one thing or another just fine. Our calibers and those of our adversaries have been established and have been proven. No arguments. Introducing a "new" one seems moot to me. (Like the intro of .40 S&W as a compromise to 9mm w/ .45.) Maybe that's my ignorance up front, but we've had a century of firearms adaptation around existing cartridges with only a couple of exceptions and competitor's platform offerings are beginning to look the same.

I guess it depends on your motive. For me the ACR isn't a novelty piece, though. It was expensive as hell but I spent the money on the premise that it will - eventually - eat what's out there already. That's the point of having an adaptable rifle, not to create a market for a new caliber. If 6.8 is a viable answer, I'll get behind it, but for someone like me, I want to use anyone's stuff I can get.

It seems like a tradeoff between what I want as a citizen, what I'm comfortable with as a service member, what works as a member of NATO, and what our spooky guys want. 6.8 is fringe for my sensibilities at this time.
 

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Actually, .40S&W was developed at the asking of the FBI. When they did the initial switch to semi autos from revolvers as their primary side arms, they were using 10mm. 10mm is a beast of a round and can be difficult to tame if you aren't a very good shooter. So the FBI had the .40 developed. It's a 10mm slug with a shorter casing and a little less powder. Still packs a serious punch with much more manageable recoil. I personally carry a .40 and love it. Hydroshock 180grain are nasty through my sig 229.

Now, I could be completely wrong about the FBI thing, but that has always been my understanding about it.

I agree with the fact that the 5.56 is proven and works. But if the boys can have something with very similar ballistics/accuracy of a 5.56 with extra knockdown power, then i say give it to them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Tommys229, I was not aware of that history with either the .40 or the 10mm. Cool to know

My brother has a SIG 220 in .40S&W and I love shooting it. Great round, hit what I point the thing at, but so does every 9mm or .45 I've shot, with comparable results. Ballistically, they're each a tradeoff. (Assuming 9mm +P) I - unfortunately - have only heard stories of the formidable 10mm, so I can't speak to it. Maybe one day.

I concur, also, that if the boys need a little something, if they really need it, they should have it. (Regardless of what my thread is about) But, to me, 6.8 is so new, cannibalizing a 7.62x39 might be easier for folks like me in public affairs who have to explain stuff! (Meaning: we won't have to.) To me, that trade-off would not resound well in a public forum.

To credit you, Tommy, being as I'm a former tanker, I've always looked at a 5.56 and was baffled as to why the .308 was ditched, period.
 
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