Ejector failure
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[quote author=chirsva link=topic=225.msg1301#msg1301 date=1288618489]
I wouldn't call that an acr failure but a failure in the ar style ejector, just clean it and lube it well.
chris
[/quote]
Very true, I was thinking more of the cause, the excessive brass shavings.
I wouldn't call that an acr failure but a failure in the ar style ejector, just clean it and lube it well.
chris
[/quote]
Very true, I was thinking more of the cause, the excessive brass shavings.
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[quote author=chirsva link=topic=225.msg1307#msg1307 date=1288631699]
Do you think it could be from out of spec bolt face or something i've never really thought about what would be shaving the cases, interesting question?
chris
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It could be anything. Brass rubbing on the feed ramps, rubbing on the feed lips of magazine, under sized bolt face shaving the case head, burrs from the machining processes, oversized case brass.....etc etc.....
Looking at the fired brass may shed some light on where to look for problems
8)
Do you think it could be from out of spec bolt face or something i've never really thought about what would be shaving the cases, interesting question?
chris
[/quote]
It could be anything. Brass rubbing on the feed ramps, rubbing on the feed lips of magazine, under sized bolt face shaving the case head, burrs from the machining processes, oversized case brass.....etc etc.....
Looking at the fired brass may shed some light on where to look for problems
8)
The buttvof the brass has a elliptical shiny spot denoting slight shaving. However, no brass was fond in the ejector spring recess this time. I believe that it's an out of spec bolt face. I lubed it up and hand cycled a 30 in the house. The casings all ejected low and to the rear. I'd like to see a higher trajectory angle on spent rounds. My buddy has sig 556 patrol and the shells fly 12' over head. I'll let you all know what bushy says. 3000$ gun that goes tits up at 250 rounds must be defective. It happens.
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[quote author=Scrotus link=topic=225.msg1316#msg1316 date=1288654082]
The buttvof the brass has a elliptical shiny spot denoting slight shaving. However, no brass was fond in the ejector spring recess this time. I believe that it's an out of spec bolt face. I lubed it up and hand cycled a 30 in the house. The casings all ejected low and to the rear. I'd like to see a higher trajectory angle on spent rounds. My buddy has sig 556 patrol and the shells fly 12' over head. I'll let you all know what bushy says. 3000$ gun that goes tits up at 250 rounds must be defective. It happens.
[/quote]
Please keep us posted, I very curious what the actual problems and resolutions will be.
The buttvof the brass has a elliptical shiny spot denoting slight shaving. However, no brass was fond in the ejector spring recess this time. I believe that it's an out of spec bolt face. I lubed it up and hand cycled a 30 in the house. The casings all ejected low and to the rear. I'd like to see a higher trajectory angle on spent rounds. My buddy has sig 556 patrol and the shells fly 12' over head. I'll let you all know what bushy says. 3000$ gun that goes tits up at 250 rounds must be defective. It happens.
[/quote]
Please keep us posted, I very curious what the actual problems and resolutions will be.
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Firing Pin. Ejector, Spring, Barrel Nut, etc. etc. I guess we are all in the same boat so we can rationalize everything. Yeah it is a new rifle which may have some growing pains but objectively the main reason alot of us took the leap was reliability I believe. Yes there were alot of other cool reasons ie; barrel interchangeability, folding stock but number one for me was it goes bang. Showing an area that needs to be addressed I would think should not be so all over the map but seems to be. Hope your issue is resolved and everyone else's too.
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My rifle has been pretty sound for the most part so I guess I'm lucky. I had a barrel that was off-center but the rifle still functioned w/o issue, just had to really crank the sights over.
I guess it'll never get better unless someone takes the plunge. The company's R&D can only go so far given a small sample of what they're producing for testing. Sure, if they produced 5000 rifles for testing w/ a cumulative million or so rounds down range between them all during the test phase they'd probably have figured all this out. Of course that's not realistic.
When you break it down it's not necessarily that the ACR is built from revolutionary parts and processes. It's innovative in that it takes the best of what's out there and puts it in one package. That means it's proven but just needs to be tweaked to work as a part of the new system.
I guess it'll never get better unless someone takes the plunge. The company's R&D can only go so far given a small sample of what they're producing for testing. Sure, if they produced 5000 rifles for testing w/ a cumulative million or so rounds down range between them all during the test phase they'd probably have figured all this out. Of course that's not realistic.
When you break it down it's not necessarily that the ACR is built from revolutionary parts and processes. It's innovative in that it takes the best of what's out there and puts it in one package. That means it's proven but just needs to be tweaked to work as a part of the new system.
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After the engineering and testing then quality control. Being able to repeat the process accurately. Not built from revolutionary parts means that there is a good deal of data including testing to rely on so then, why such unrealistic pricing? I don't think they are flying off the shelves currently. Tweaking and hand fitting is for weapons that were manufactured years ago and needed it because on QC problems. The multiple issues that seem to be all over the map seem like QC to me. Do you believe that you should have had the problem you had? Was it material. engineering, user or QC?
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That question is rhetorical. I'm a simple man with the simple belief things should work as advertised. I'm also a realist and realize there are things in this world, let's take a billion dollar fighter jet for instance, that have had decades of engineering and operational use, that still to this day test pilots are finding new failure modes. An even better example comes from a couple years back when I was a military armorer. We've been issuing the M16 for over 40 years but the last time compliance item I remember was from 2005. The concepts going into it may not be revolutionary but lumping together in one place is so now it's getting that system to work as intended.
I can't say why or how they priced it. I honestly think they were shooting a bit high by breaching $2K with their "basic" model, but, it's their company to do with as they please. And if they are flying off the shelves or not isn't an apples to apples comparison. It's a boutique rifle at this point. The average Joe will look at an ACR and an AR and realize that for all the ACR brings the AR still, and will be for quite some time, is bringing more to the party. Parts, customization, blah, blah, blah. Given its status a boutique rifle I think 5K+ sold in the first year is pretty darn good.
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Do you believe based on your experience as a "military armorer" that your problem with your boutique rifle was; engineering, material or a quality control problem? Or none of the above? I am doing my best to communicate but even putting out 100% effort I am only about 34% effective.
I agree machines are not perfect and the people who make them are not either. I guess it is just a matter of perspective and what each persons expectations are of the product. The variable besides end user should be ammunition but not some of the things I read. I guess the 5k plus sold is pretty good as you noted in the first year. Anticipation of a great new rifle certainly boosted those initial sales.
I agree machines are not perfect and the people who make them are not either. I guess it is just a matter of perspective and what each persons expectations are of the product. The variable besides end user should be ammunition but not some of the things I read. I guess the 5k plus sold is pretty good as you noted in the first year. Anticipation of a great new rifle certainly boosted those initial sales.
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Hard to say really, the trunnion wasn't replaced but the barrel was. It could have been a combination of all three or maybe some random one off event. What's funny is that the rifle has always shot well, before and after.
Tell me how you really feel. Unless I need to adjust fire I get the feeling you're trying out for forum a-hole?
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...i'd have to say your going out on a limb DSM with your jet analogy...i recently read john boyd's bio...the guy that helped conceive the modern fighter jet...and they're still figuring out the science and math of it all....not to mention all the political lobbying that also lost them billions on crappy jets ...dejavu m16...anyway, i'd like to throw in an analogy...or two...
...the 1911...nuff said...you can tweak it but the original is still the standard...and the good ole katana....still not too expensive from quality manufacturers...oh, i forgot about the AK...
...maybe it's like username9875 said, it depends on the persons expectations of the product...i mean what would you expect from an AK?...built by a poor lice infested commie tanker?...and what would you expect from a 2000$ plus ACR built from a merger of three modern powerhouse millionaire weapon specialized companies?...
...the 1911...nuff said...you can tweak it but the original is still the standard...and the good ole katana....still not too expensive from quality manufacturers...oh, i forgot about the AK...
...maybe it's like username9875 said, it depends on the persons expectations of the product...i mean what would you expect from an AK?...built by a poor lice infested commie tanker?...and what would you expect from a 2000$ plus ACR built from a merger of three modern powerhouse millionaire weapon specialized companies?...
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Agree with it or not, I still stand by it. Though if you want to split hairs I think you could say that about anything. Automobiles? Why aren't we still driving Model T's? Computers? Bring on the TRS80 and Commodore 64. Items considered operational are upgraded, redesigned and replaced daily. I used the example of the M16 myself. We got a TCTO to inspect/replace extractor springs back in '05. I'm not in anymore but my buds said their latest inspect/replace item was the new tan followers in the mags. The M16 family has been "operational" since before I was born and we're still finding possible failure modes.
I'm not disagreeing that something should work as intended. I don't care if it's $2 or $2K. If it says it should do X then it should do X. Anything made by the hand of man will fail and will have faults. If our expectations differ then that's where we'll have to part company in agreement.
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I did tell you what I thought but now you resort to calling me FORUM ASSHOLE. Once the bullet leaves the barrel it is difficult to pull it back in. I guess you take my trying 100% and being only 34% effective offensive? I believe that about 70% of communication is non verbal and I am not a writing teacher. I did like your last paragraph though;
" I'm not disagreeing that something should work as intended. I don't care if it's $2 or $2K. If it says it should do X then it should do X. Anything made by the hand of man will fail and will have faults. If our expectations differ then that's where we'll have to part company in agreement "
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well the difference i think is the 1911 is 100 yrs old and its still a modern firearm...the ak is a modern weapon that can run without any present mod...that can hardly be said for a model-T...a model-T is not driven on the autobahn...and as for the m-16...i meant to correlate the failures of some of the jet choices the gov. made on politics and lobbying, dido for the m-16....i think we should expect a hell of a lot more from manufacturing in 2010...the model-T was made in 1908...3 yrs before the 1911...ford was a punk...hahaa
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I'd reckon more folks than me reading your statement might get the perception it was passive aggressive. If you're telling me my perception was incorrect, then like I said, I'll adjust fire. No blood, no foul and my apologies if so.
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