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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Too often I hear people complaining that the ACR is not chrome lined. But then say that their Noveske barrel is the best. Isn't Noveske changing to melonite to all their barrels? Then I see Spikes ACR barrel is Stainless Steel. So what are the pros and cons to all these barrels? Is there one type that is just the bees knees?
 

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It depends on what you want I guess, each has its own merits, and, like anything else will be played in the marketing arena. As long as I'm not looking at barrel replacement under 15K rounds I guess it'd do for me. 20K would be better.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thinking back on it, I may have put this thread in the wrong area. Sorry
 

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Chrome lined barrels have been around for a long time and is used to extend the life and add corrosion resistance to carbon steel barrels. Melonite, (nitriding) is a relatively new process compared to chrome lining and is a metal hardening process from what I understand, where chrome lined is a plating process. The are alot of technical aspects, such as the nitrided barrels dont changed dimensions when treated, where chrome lined barrels have to take in account the added plating when finishing the barrel before plating them. Stainless barrels have added corrosion resistance compared to non plated / treated carbon steel barrels but other then that, I don't know the merits of them over the others.

Personally, I like nitrided barrels over all others availible. The process seems to extend the life of the barrel and if it's an accurate barrel before its treated, it will be afterwards.

I'm not an expert on the matter, but this is what I have gathered thru my reading over the years. Hope it made sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So in other words, the Spikes stainless steel nickel boron coated is in your opinion the good one for the ACR.
 

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So in other words, the Spikes stainless steel nickel boron coated is in your opinion the good one for the ACR.
Don't know if Spikes makes there own or contracts them. I haven't heard anything about them one way or the other. There are certain barrel maker that I would buy without reservation. Based on Spikes reputation on other stuff they make, I would buy it if it met my needs.

I guess that a lot of verbage to say yes...... :)
 

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You can't go wrong with a Noveske. I am a die-hard Noveske fan and for good reason. His barrels are notorious for their accuracy.
 

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Based on Spikes reputation on other stuff they make, I would buy it if it met my needs.
This right here sums it up for me too.


But SD speaks the truth. If Noveske makes an "ACR ready" barrel it'll be a winner right out of the gate. He'd sell a hundred of them before they're even made I'd bet.
 

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Agreed, hopefully they'd be fluted or given a lighter profile though as they are already HEAVY.

I have on of his new Crusader barrels (with a 1.5" shelf for VLTOR VST) that I had intended for an AR upper that I may end up saving for the ACR.
 

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I think most folks go with chrome lined barrels if you are going to throw ALOT of abuse/rounds/FA fire thru that type of barrel - as for SS I think along the lines of still long service life but more of a DM/bench shoot application.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Are you saying the SS would hold a tighter group than the chrome lined? After looking at Noveske again, all their barrels are SS.

as for SS I think along the lines of still long service life but more of a DM/bench shoot application
 

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A stainless can be more accurate because stainless barrels are more consistent along the length of the bore. A chrome lined barrel may have inconsistencies in coating thickness that creates "hard" and "soft" spots for the bullet to pass over. Chrome actually quickly flakes in the bore and can also expose the underlying metal to increased erosion.

But then again, I've seen junk stainless barrels and service grade M16 barrels that'd shoot quarter sized groups all day long. It depends on the care that is put into its production.
 

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Here is an interview w/John Noveske (link) http://www.defensereview.com/novesk...ecce-carbine-john-noveske-interview-part-one/
While I was in 7th SFG(A) and our C 3/7 (CIF) guys wanted a 10.5 goto barrel for their MK18s - they went with what John was producing..I will go a bit farther and say John is the kind of guy that knows his shit - read on:

Noveske: Here is the thing I hate doing, which is the used car sales pitch, o.k., ’cause I pretty much don’t really do it very often. But, what separates my product from the rest of the products out there, is…the obvious thing’s the barrel, and, from start to finish, the barrel goes through more inspection and testing than any other barrel out there that I’m aware of. From the point we pull the steel of the trailer in 12-foot bars, we instantly hardness test and serialize each bar. Then, every bar throughout the entire production process is numbered accordingly to its parent bar. And then, like I said, we designed all the tooling so the diameters on the drills, the bore reamers, the hand-lapping process, the button that does the button-rifling is our design, and it’s an improvement over conventional polygonal [rifling] in that you get an extended barrel life over conventional polygonal [rifling]. In fact, I’ve never heard of one of our new barrels shooting out. In a year and two months, there’s never been a report of one of my new buttons…the new types of rifling types [barrels] shooting out.
We designed that new rifling for our Extreme Duty Machine Gun Barrel Project for the M249 and the Mk46, and we had so much success with that new design that I quickly applied it to all of our M4/M16-type rifles. So, the new rifling is 1-in-7 twist. It appears, when you look down the barrel, as a 6-land-and-groove, and what we did was we adjusted the angles on the sides of the land to give us the optimal performance. After rifling, there’s a stress-relief process that is designed to pull out all the stress without losing any hardness. The barrels are then trued-up so that when we put ‘em in our CNC-contouring lathe, the contour is 100% concentric to the bore, so that you don’t have an strange harmonics when the bullet travels down the barrel, and that’s part of the process of…the contouring process is…I’m pretty protective of it, so that’s about all I want to say is that it’s very accurate.
And then, when we go to chambering, it’s a chambering process that I developed as an employee of Pac-Nor, and I looked at how they were chambering barrels, and I saw the logic in it, and I found ways to improve it. The reamers are all custom-made for me as far as the grind, the angles, the number of flutes. The way we chamber, you never get any scoring on the lands forward of the throat like most other people have to deal with, because our chips are forced out the back. The end result is a beautiful, highly polished chamber. Every barrel is individually inspected to ensure against or prevent reamer wear and have an undersized chamber. They all get gauged on every point, and the design of the chamber is a design I developed after many different evolutions. This was designed to work…to do full-auto mag dumps with [Black Hills] MK 262 Mod 1 [77gr Open-Tip Match (OTM) 5.56x45mm ammo], and now you can sit there and pour as much ammo as you can through the gun on full-auto, and the thing that’s gonna’ fail is the gas tube. We haven’t had any stuck chambers since I came up with the recent chamber, which is called the Noveske…the acronym, which we write on the barrel is "NMm0", and that stands for Noveske Match Mod 0. It’s a chamber that gives you 100% reliability with as much retained accuracy as possible. You can have a more accurate chamber design, but you sacrifice battle-grade reliability. You can get stuck cases and other things with different chambers.
So, from the chamber, our barrel is hardness-tested again, just to make sure we didn’t lose any hardness in the heat-treating process, and every barrel is serial-numbered at that point. So, now, all the information about the barrel, the heat-treat lot, the packing slip number, the bar number, all that information is now attached to the barrel with a 6-digit serial number, and it goes through the rest of the process with all the information attached to it by that number. And, we keep a log book with every end-user and every bit of information, just in case there was a problem with one customer’s barrel, we can track down all the related barrels and pull ‘em in in an efficient manner. And we’ve never had to do that, but I can if I need to.
Crane: And all the barrels are polygonal-rifled, right?
Noveske: All the stainless barrels have…that button that we designed, I call "Improved Polygonal". The polygonal that I used in the past and that some other people are using has one shortcoming, which is an unpredictable end-of-service life. It goes from shooting great to tumbling bullets. Our barrel now gives you a predictable end-of-service life. As it’s shooting out, it’s going to open up in group before the bullets tumble.
Crane: And how many rounds are you gonna’ get out of that?
Noveske: I don’t know. I know of barrels that are over 15,000 rounds still in service. So, I don’t know how long they’ll go, but I know that they’re going quite a ways.
Crane: What about the chrome-lined barrels? Are those polygonal, too?
Noveske: Those are strictly made to the TDP for the M249, so they’re a 6-land-and-groove MILSPEC conventional land-and-groove with a 5.56 NATO chamber.
Crane: If you’re settin’ up an AR carbine for somebody, most of the time, are you gonna’ recommend the stainless polygonal?
Noveske: Well, it depends. I ask them what they’re gonna’ do with it. The stainless-barreled uppers and rifles that we sell are a precision carbine. The chrome-lined light carbines are…for the guy that says he’s gonna’ beat it up, he’s gonna’ abuse it, he’s gonna’ train hard, he’s gonna’ do full-auto mag dumps, that’s the gun for that kind of treatment. The guy that’s gonna’ be sniper, counter-sniper, or anything precision…
Crane: What if you’re doin’ a lot of…let’s say you’re gonna’ compete in 3-gun with it on semi-auto, and you’re just gonna’ do a lot of rapid fire semi-auto shooting and stuff like that, then what?
Noveske: Either one’s fine. They’re both very accurate. I’ve got groups that people have sent me with both barrels under half an inch at 100 yards, so it’s kind of like I’m competing with myself.
Crane: If you’re looking at both the stainless barrel and the chrome-lined barrel, what’s standard MOA on these guns, on these barrels.
Noveske: Stainless barrels–and I’m not sayin’ this from what I’ve shot. This is reports from customers—The typical end-user report on my stainless barrels is about .6 MOA, and the Light Carbine barrels, most everything I hear is sub-MOA, and that means it can be three quarters of an inch [3/4" MOA] or half an inch [1/2" MOA].
Crane: So stainless is gonna’ be a little bit more accurate, but not much.
Noveske: Right, ’cause they’re both very accurate, already.
Crane: In terms of the rail systems that you’re usin’, you chose Superior Weapons Systems, I guess, just because you liked the base rail that they were doin’, and you figured you could just…
 

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Are you saying the SS would hold a tighter group than the chrome lined? After looking at Noveske again, all their barrels are SS.
I should have made a better statement: Retaining accuracy and reliability is a complicated balance in that the chamber needs to be slightly modified from the NATO to improve bullet hook-up in the throat, while keeping to functional properties of the NATO body dimensions...again from the Noveske site and he says it best...

As for a chrome lined: the process the barrel undergoes is different - cold hammer forged that is hardend around a rifle mandrel that creates the lands and groves - then the barrel is chrome lined...

Both barrel process prove great accuracy - but the SS/chamber/throat hook up will edge in accuracy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I'm sold. The only barrel I would buy now is a 300 BLK at 10". I may get another 5.56 down the road but I'm just too damn excited for the 300 BLK.
 

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I think you will like the 300BLK - Had mine now about 2 months and love it 7.62 x 35 is quite a round - but the idea of not having to change yor BCG or extractor - just barrel change sold me...this is another option I am looking at for the ACR; And since BM is SO S L O W coming to market w/barrel change options for the ACR its time to take matters in my own hands and do it my-self...and help with a guy I know here that has the machine skills to make it happen for a few bucks...
 
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