[DSM]

I posted over on the ACR vs. SCAR thread but I don't want to hijack the thread anymore than it already was. I don't have a way to do videos but if anyone is interested in any kind of comparison let me know what you want to see or know. I can post whatever is in my capabilities to do.

 

[DSM]

There are a total of three uppers for the XCR currently. On the rifle is the PDW or "Mini" receiver (allows barrels down to 9" [shown is a 10" barrel]). Above is the standard upper (allows barrels from 11" to 18"). Not shown is a "Micro" upper (allows barrels down to 7").

The shorter receivers can accept the barrels of any of its larger versions. Ex: The 18" barrel shown above can be fit to a Micro receiver. However, the gas block prevents it from working the other way with the shorter barrels in the longer receivers.

Both rifles pivoted open to their fullest extent. The XCR doesn't open as much however it is still more than enough to remove the bolt/op rod or inspect the bore.

Operating parts removed.

Field strip of both. There are no pins or other attachment mechanisms fort the XCR group. It will come apart to these pieces basically by themselves. Further disassembly would require a punch to remove the firing pin and a slightly larger punch to work out the extractor. The ACR group pretty much disassembles to it's core components w/o tools. To replace the ejector on both rifles would require a tool (1/4" wrench for the XCR fixed ejector and punch for the ACR's legacy design). Yes, I know I didn't remove the ACR extractor.

The safeties of both set to FIRE. I will be biased here on this one, the XCR is t!ts in this department.

I don't have any pics of ACR groups but here is one from a 9" XCR @ 100yds. Ammo was Wolf Gold 75gr, if I recall correctly. I've printed MOA with the 18" barrel above. The ACR prints the same, if not better, depending on the ammo and shooter.

 

[ACRFan]

Nice DSM. Formerly owning an XCR, it was/is a great rifle. I had it fine tuned at the factory to shoot wolf on setting 1 with full reliability. That thing shot so softly. I sold her to buy a KAC SR15 E3 because I could not stand the sight over bore and was tired of waiting for the new stock (vaporware). If there ever is a new stock, I may consider buying an XCR again, only it will be an SBR.

 

[soapboxpreacher]

Yeah the XCR certainly shot softly. What did they do at the factory to shoot wolf? I had tons of issues with mine! Yes I know...wolf sucks but it is significantly cheaper then PMC or Rem...100 less per 1000. So it is a must for me to have a rifle shoot wolf.

 

[soapboxpreacher]

DSM what sights do you have on your ACR?

 

[cjt50]

Nice comparison pictures. You do realize you are going to make me buy one of those

soapboxpreacher, I believe those are Troy Micros on DSM's ACR

 

[DSM]

Correct on the sights, Troy Micros.


I don't know what the latest status is on it but there was a lawsuit brought against Magpul and Bushmaster by RobArm in regards to the bolt catch/release. You can see that both rifles share a fairly common feature in that regard. RobArm has a patent on it, that is fact, along with a design for a ambi mag release.


If there is anything else anyone is interested in then post it up and I'll see what I can do.

 

[SDDuc996]

Which would you use to churn butter?

 

[VB]

The XCR has better spare parts availability, more barrel options, different length uppers, a better trigger, factory SBR support and is the ultimate DIY gun because in terms of design, it is very caveman. Big metal parts are easy to cut, grind, dremel and bend into whatever you want, and even if you mess up spare parts are fairly cheap and easy to get. My XCR is barely a factory gun at this point and Robinson supported all my mods without voiding my warranty.

Mind you the XCR has been around for 5 years and sold 7000 guns, and Robarm is smaller and owned by one family so they can turn the ship at the drop of a hat and do cool little things that a more bureaucratic Bushmaster cannot do as quickly. Though, the new stock is long overdue.

I don't own an ACR at this stage because I expect it to do some of the things the XCR currently does very well. BM needs time, but once they get it together, I'll be more than happy to own one. My main deal right now is I want factory 1/7 SBR barrels, preferably without the barrel latch, but I can mod that on my own.

Also, I've shot the XCR so much over the past 5 years that it's like a 2nd skin to me. I know it inside and out, can fix any issue, and understand it through it through because it is so simple.

My XCR is currently configured like so, but hasn't been shot much because I've been so busy.

 

[DSM]

Mind you the XCR has been around for 5 years and sold 7000 guns....

Personal opinions and commentary follows:

This quoted statement above is what will make the XCR outshine the ACR for the foreseeable future. Once conversions for the ACR make it to market it'll start to shift slightly. Spares too. If that status quo continues depends on how both companies evolve their product line.

There are places, in my humble opinion of course, that RobArm dropped the ball. Things like a 5.45 conversion are a few years too late (though I understand one is in the works currently, the boom in cheap 5.45 ComBloc ammo is over). Folks would jump on a .22 conversion like Rosie O'D on a cupcake. The uber-stock, well, it is what it is. If it's not ready then it's not ready.

He's changed strategies since but I think Alex Robinson's excitement for his rifle has gotten him into a little trouble by announcing things that were still months, to even years, from fruition. I've never spoken to him but have seen several statements that would make me take anything he says with a grain of salt.

Just so it's not all about RobArm, where would I think Bushmaster could improve? First, stop trying to prepackage the ACR like their AR's. Their ACR ordering page should have the basic rifle with options menus for what you want. There's nothing I like better than spending a couple grand on a rifle only to have to turn around and spend a couple hundred more to get it set up the way I wanted in the first place. (At least they somewhat paid attention and now stock a "Basic Folder" option which seems to be a fairly popular ACR config.) Will that make production planning harder? Yes, but then hire smart people to figure it out.

If customers are lining up to give you their money for a barrel with a certain twist then why would you ignore that? The factory barrel works fine for me and most other folks but if numbers matter to folks then make it happen or you're letting money walk away to other people.

Lastly, do what you can do to maybe drop that price back another $1-200 and you'll have the platform to beat all others, hands down.

 

[soapboxpreacher]

As many have said the ACR is heavy among my bitching. But this is easy: flute the barrel, skeletonize the rail system better, make the grip better...I hate it! Sights blow! Shot selector...is not my favorite but overall I like what I see and how adaptable this platform is. If rem can shave a pound off (which I believe they are in the process of doing) and do some small improvements I think this is an excellent platform one that is going to be superior to nearly all others. They are capable. This is something I did not feel RA was. When they abandon their previous platform I currently knew nothing of RA until after I had an XCR. I had heard mixed but it did evolve better but I dont think completely. There are still things missing from Alex Platform. There are still bugs after 5 years. Things that hold it back. But there are things that I just absolutely love like the fact that It fires so softly and flat! I love the ergos, and it is built like I tank. It feels compact when handling (narrow to me) But I have huge hang ups! Hate the stock, trigger (even the new one...see rock river), and the barrel bolt...among others bolts (deflector) that need loctite to stop from loosing up. But without RA I dont think we would see what we do today for Alex has motivated as well as proved that the XCR is in many ways better then a significant amount of rifles out there today. Would I carry it if I had to pick of the last rifle I could...hell no! Mine was just not as reliable as even my other rifles have been. In fact it was nearly dead last. Bolts loosened, FTF issues, mediocre accuracy, and crap customer service drove me off nearly as fast as I was on! Too bad for when it did shot I love it. But maybe it is my fault. For all that have owned it I had heard nothing but the best about it. And of the problems they didnt seem to be that bad. So I went in thinking this was the end all be all platform...I set myself up. I didnt stick around like VB3 did...maybe I should have but honestly I question the leadership at rob and if it will be around in 5-10 years. If he wins his suits yes...but if he loses I feel it will go under. Not to mention the companies he is suing have tons more cabbage and blood thirsty lawyers. But in my heart I still have a love for RA and I hope they succeed and if they do for the love of god get some better customer support!!!! That alone would have kept me on board!

 

[VB]

Not to mention the companies he is suing have tons more cabbage and blood thirsty lawyers

That's the same thing Remington thought last time they were sued by Robarm, and they ended up paying Robarm a huge check in damages.

 

[DSM]

Oh, I imagine RobArm and their XCR will be around for quite some time. I don't know what the status is, nor care to wager a guess as to what the outcome of the bolt catch lawsuit will be.

If it were me, I'd settle for that all reference to the ACR's bolt catch must be referred to as the "Robinson bolt catch system" or some other such name and then accept compensation from Magpul in the form of products. PMags w/ the RobArm logo, MIAD & MOE grips, XTM panels, MBUS, etc, etc. Automatically the XCR gets a kick start out the door because it comes "fully kitted" with the gonzo gear all the cool kids will add anyways.

 

[BoovarBjarki]

My search for my next rifle was between the scar, xcr and acr. I have yet to own any. The scar is for sure out. I can't get past the way the xcr barrel is held on and the stock. Most likely I am going to get the acr in brown in a few weeks.

 

[DSM]

I can't get past the way the xcr barrel is held on and the stock. Most likely I am going to get the acr in brown in a few weeks.

My initial thoughts regarding the barrel attachment method were definitely in-line with yours as well. I kept falling back to my armorer training with MG's and was worried about headspacing between different barrels and the fact it was a single point of failure. But, I went ahead and took the plunge on it. I shot the barrel loose on one of the first outings with it but then invested in a torque wrench (250in/lb) and realized; a) I had limp wristed the bolt the first time, and b) if anything comes loose at 250in/lb there is something wrong with the rifle. I haven't had any trouble since with a loose barrel. I put a witness mark on the bolt and receiver that I can check at a glance.
The stock is what it is. It's simple and works. I would like something a little more versatile as well though.

As for your desire to get a Coyote ACR all I have to say to that is, "Great Choice!". It's the true coloring of an ACR ya know.

 

[cjt50]

DSM,

Your personal commentary and comments are well said. .22lr conversion, I'm all over it!! 6 x 45 or 300aac like white on rice!! Like you said, Robarms is a small company, and can take a turn anytime they like to meet customer wants. (kinda surprised they havn't, but thats for another thread)

I have to admit, even with the side show of the companies owner, the rifle has great merits. I have finally convinced myself to seriously find one, (doesnt hurt I got a little cash burning a hole in my pocket )

BTW, it is all your fault with your fair objective observations and statements about the rifle / company. (that's a good thing ) Atleast I'm going into this with my eyes open.



ETA: Well,................. I did it, found a used one, with full picatinny rails, 16" HBAR and folding tube stock for $1300 OTD, (Tax, tag and transfer fees) Rifle looks unfired and has 1 very minor blemish on a top rail where it looks like a scope was mounted. Now I just have to wait 3 business days to pick it up.

 

[DSM]

ETA: Well,................. I did it, found a used one, with full picatinny rails, 16" HBAR and folding tube stock for $1300 OTD, (Tax, tag and transfer fees) Rifle looks unfired and has 1 very minor blemish on a top rail where it looks like a scope was mounted. Now I just have to wait 3 business days to pick it up.

Sweet! There isn't anything wrong with having both as they are fine rifles. If there is anything I can help with just let me know!

 

[soapboxpreacher]

That's the same thing Remington thought last time they were sued by Robarm, and they ended up paying Robarm a huge check in damages.

They did...for what and how much did alex get?

 

[SDDuc996]

Sued for the bolt release being in the same position.

 

[cjt50]

Sweet! There isn't anything wrong with having both as they are fine rifles. If there is anything I can help with just let me know!

Thanks, once I get in inhouse next week, I may have some questions. I going to break it down, clean and make sure all bolts are tight. You dont happen to have a list of torque values do you? I know the barrel is 250 in/lbs. I have a tendency to over torque things and learned the hard way a torque wrench is a money saver