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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm still looking at buying an ACR, and I have more questions from users.(I research the * out of everything I buy...)

This will be my 'go to' rifle. It would be my only centerfire aside my Mosin(for deer, elk, bear) and my Sig(for social work) and I'd be buying it with the intention of running 6.8.
Here's the sort of stuff I want to do with my ACR:
-Shoot Coyotes, maybe other varmint.
-Hunt Deer(I'm comfortable with the 6.8 for deer, I don't want to discuss this)
-Hunt Bobcat if I can(Maybe? Advice?)
-SHTF rifle.
-Try to shoot at longer ranges(500-600 yards, maybe? 6.5? I need advice here.)
-Fun rifle to take up boredome during the winter months.
(I live in central Washington if that helps you understand my situation)

For optics, I've kinda got my heart set on the US Optics SN-3 http://www.usoptics.com/product.php?partnumber=SN3-1000.
Whatever I do, I expect this rifle to be doing it's work at about 150-400 yards(if I can get more, I'll take it).

So is the ACR for me?
Should I be grabbing for an 'ARF' instead?
How far will this rifle reach if I do my part with the rifle's pet ammo?
Is this rifle is acceptable for hunting small/medium/predatory game?
Is this a rifle that can 'take a licking and keep on ticking'?
Will the USO SN-3 suit the ACR?

This is a rifle I intend to use.
Any advice, comments, and personal experience are very welcome.:D
 

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M4 for BEAR!!!i have a 600-700 lbs Blk Bear around in the yard at times.
 

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What would you say the reasonable range of the rifle is?
People say M4 is about 500 yards, what's the ACR?
Depending on your barrel and load your using. It say that it's about the same. It's an M4 barrel.
 

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Sounds like you should wait for the 6.8 kits to be out. Hopefully they're on schedule for August.
 

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It seems like the 5.56mm version will do most of what you want to do, honestly. It's a fine catridge for anything white-tail or smaller, if used accurately, and will kill many much larger animals if so required. The only issue that jumps to my mind is humane killing. A humane hunter only takes prey within a caliberXrange envelope that guarantees a clean, humane kill. In the field, that envelope is smaller than it is on the gun range, due to the variables of the wild. So with that in mind, you might prefer your 6.8 variant for deer (since it gives you more bullet and thus more leeway in terms of bullet placement). Similarly, the effective lethal range of either caliber might be much greater than the range at which you would take a game shot with that caliber, as a humane hunter. With hunting loads, either of these calibers might be accurate and lethal to 400 or even 500 yards from the bench, but you may make a decision for yourself that that means you'll only take up to 300 yard shots on deer, just for the animal's sake. Call it an extra MOA for buck fever, funny breezes, and the leftover sausage you had for breakfast. It's also worth remembering that for hunting purposes, there's no reason to hot-swap barrels. Set up the rifle for the game of the day and then sight it in and leave it fixed until the hunt is over. That removes at least one variable.

There's no denying that the AR platform can be made very accurate (else people would not spend money on stuff like 6.5 Grendel). We have yet to see if the more proprietary ACR platform has the same potential, but you only need 3 MOA to hunt deer out to 100 yards. The only people taking shots at live animals from distances that require sub-MOA rifles and individualized ballistics tables and whatnot are soldiers whose missions require it, and for whom a gut shot or near miss still has some positive tactical value.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that if you put in the work to find the right hunting loads (not mil-surplus FMJ, but proper, well-made softpoints) which perform well in your particular barrel and to become proficient with them, you should not need hesitate to hunt any of the animals you listed with an ACR in 6.8 OR .223, within the ranges you've found that you personally can guarantee the clean kill. And I'll bet that will be any reasonable range for such game, out to 300 yards if you choose barrel and ammo wisely. And you can kill a hell of a lot of animals in a hurry with a 10 or 20 round magazine. Take it pig hunting in Texas and bring home the whole family. Pork sausage from mama and a litter of piglets for the rotisserie.

The above presumes that 6.8mm SPC II kits eventually start to exist. Until they do, it's a good thing 5.56mm is viable, because that's all you've got in this rifle. Again, do your due diligence, but don't write off the 5.56mm as a perfectly lethal round for CXP-2 game and smaller.

The issue of Very Long Range shooting, 500+ yards, is even more vaporware dependent. Even for punching paper, you need a bullet with a decent ballistic coefficient and uniform shape, sufficient and (more importantly) consistent acceleration and muzzle velocity, and a fine-tuned platform from which to launch the missile. Whether it's 5.56, 6.5, 6.8, or some other cartridge, you're still talking about aftermarket barrels (with hand-picked profiles, rates of twist appropriate to the loads being fired' etc.), aftermarket receivers, bolts and carriers, triggers, and other components which exist in the AR market to support the precision competition game but which do not exist even theoretically for the ACR yet. Aside from a few companies doing SBR work, what Bushmaster is selling is what you get, and none of it is designed to win medals at 600 yards. Honestly, I doubt that anyone will try to take the ACR down that road. The ACR's design theory is one of ruggedness, reliability, and ergonomics (with a few small oversights) for an efficient tactical weapon. That may make it a very effective "dynamic game weapon," which phrase I just invented to describe animals taken at close and medium range, on the move, or under difficult hunting circumstances such as stalking and still-hunting. It does not lend itself to bench rest competition, though.

So, bottom line? What exists now is a 5.56mm rifle that will take game efficiently out to 100 yards, and further if it's small, weak game (varmints) and you do your homework in terms of load selection and practice. Oh, and it has all the benefits of being, y'know, an ACR. What is promised to exist in the next year or so is a 5.56mm and/or 6.8mm rifle that will efficiently take game or paper (as barrels in various twists and profiles become available) out to 300 yards potentially, again with due diligence on the part of the operator. A various-caliber rifle, capable of taking game to 400 yards and punching paper at 600 yards, may come to exist if the ACR takes off and Bushmaster makes it easy for aftermarket parts makers to offer elite variations on the ACR component menu. This last is unlikely.




P. S.: 6.5mm bullets are really cool. High sectional density, high ballistic coefficient, and enough popular interest to get the high end manufacturers interested in producing bullets in that caliber. That said, anything that uses a STANAG 4179 -sized magazine is going to be limited in its ultimate capabilities. Even fattened cases like the Grendel can only hold so much powder in that length limit, and fat cases with steep shoulders have additional accuracy and feeding concerns. Bear that in mind before you pour money into it.

P.P.S: Reviewing your original post, Murray, I would add that IF additional barrels become available in various profiles, for 6.8mm especially, then the ACR might make an excellent complement to your Mosin (which I presume is some kind of fairly long, fairly accurate 7.62 Russian Zaitsev-worthy Stalingrad Special). On a mixed-bag hunt, you would have the long gun as your primary large-game weapon, and you would have the ACR for opportunity targets scared up during a stalk or walk. If you are very confident in your carbine skills, you could even use the 6.8 version as a bear-defense gun, but be ready to put a lot of lead downrange in a hurry if you have a grizzly problem. I really do think that in the real world, you are unlikely to be able to shoot animals at 400 yards with an ACR reliably and humanely. However, taking as given that only the very rare and silly hunter shoots at an animal from farther than 300 yards (And besides, if you can't get within 300 yards of your prey, you aren't much of a hunter, are you--prairie dogs notwithstanding.), and presuming you can someday get a 6.8mm barrel of appropriate length, weight, and quality, then these two rifles should cover a wide spectrum of hunting scenarios. So maybe you don't have the 600 yard rodent headshot ready, but how common are those, really? Everything else, you're good to go. They would just look weird together, is all. Very "Odd Couple."
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Many thanks for your time and response!
I guess I've got even more thinking to do.

IF I could get my hands on a good quality, good weight barrel for the ACR in 6.8, how far do you think the platform is capable of shooting accurately?
Seems like the ACR is just not a go-to rifle in the accuracy department.

I don't think Olga would like it if I bought an ACR.
She's the jealous type. ;)

Olga is my Mosin, by the way.
 

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I have a hunting rifle, multiple 22's for plinking, and an ACR. the more I shoot it, the more I love it. as the platform matures it may become a real distance shooter. but for now my 30-O6 fills that roll. the ACR will put a lot of lead down range quickly and accuratly. but again I must remind everyone this weapon has only been out for 16 months. I am just as anxious as everybody else to get some caliber kits and parts available.
 

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Well, I hold tight groups with it using the stock BUIS. I think it is very accurate. Its an assault rifle, not a tac driver. Different roles. If you want to hold 1.5MOA groups at 800 yards, get a Rem700. an assault rifle has a different purpose
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Its an assault rifle, not a tac driver. Different roles. If you want to hold 1.5MOA groups at 800 yards, get a Rem700. an assault rifle has a different purpose
I get that, I'm just trying to get a feel for the capabilities of the rifle before I go buy one.
 

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Murray, I think Tommy has the right of it, which is to say that this is a semi-automatic combat weapon system built for STANAG-compatible calibers. Such rifles are generally built to ASPIRE to 1 MOA accuracy, which is one-inch groups at one hundred yards (i.e., within 0.5" of the point of aim). Honestly, 1-2 MOA is quite respectable and useful, and the ACR seems to be doing well on the low end of that, around 1 MOA from the factory, with decent ammo, according to testimonials. It may well get even better with aftermarket parts. But the purpose of such a rifle is to give you about 1 MOA out to the effective limit of the cartridges being discussed. Around 300 yards. Maybe 400 with high end parts and ammo. That still gives you an eight inch pie plate at 400 yards, and that's good enough to kill most people and medium game. Beyond that, I wouldn't trust a short cased round to provide lethal velocity for a clean kill. The possible exception might be boutique 6mm rounds (like Grendel) against soft targets like paper or ground hogs, but 1 MOA will not guarantee you a hit on such a small target at long range anyway. Again, varminting is not why this rifle was invented. USEFUL battlefield accuracy, coupled with ruggedness, reliability, and modularity, is what makes it a good gun for the battlefield, and those are the qualities that will make it a good gun for the hunter as well. Accurate enough to be a deer rifle, reliable enough to trust against wild hogs in the mud and sticks and snow and ice. Configurable enough to play either game.

For a contrast, I just got my principle hunting rifle back from the gunsmith. Squared and bedded Mauser '98 bolt action; laminated stock; Lilja #6 barrel, fluted, crowned at 25", chambered for 6.5 x 55mm Swedish Mauser; single-stage trigger that breaks like ice when you swat it with a feather. I fully expect it to be far more accurate than I could ever hope to take full advantage of, maybe even to a thousand yards in the hands of an expert--but that's all it will do. Single, very accurate shots with 140gr Nosler Partition or Hornaday SST bullets, if I have my druthers.

Basically, you asked if the ACR will be a good "all around" rifle. I think it will, if high quality parts become available for it as have for the AR-15 platform. Two inch groups at four hundred yards is not "all around," though. Any more than is shooting cape buffalo. Those are specialty shooting, requiring a specialist weapons. At least for the foreseeable future, they require rifles that are made to do that but only that. The ACR, meanwhile, will do a very good job of handling the rest of the spectrum, I should think. A wide gamut covering all but the most stringent sporting requirements.

Another way to put it is, if you have grown up with the experience that a knock-around, general purpose, walkin' the woods beater stick should consider 400 yard shooting all in a day's work, you have lived in a rarified world of firearms. For the vast majority of us normal hunters, 300 yards is the limit of point blank range, guaranteed cartridge accuracy, and most of all shooter confidence. The vast, vast majority of deer and coyotes and people taken with rifles have been killed at less than 100 yards with whatever them good ol' boys could afford. 3 MOA, iron sights, but damn it, it goes boom when I pull the trigger, and them bullets git where I was aimin'. (The bucks I have killed have generally been close enough to make me fear for my safety and consider it self defense.) Believe me, if you make an ACR in 6.8 your knock-around gun, ain't nobody gonna tell you you need more weapon. Fear not. So maybe 400 yards is pushing it a little. Only reason you're shooting the badguy at 400 yards is because he's running the **** away from you and your ACR.

So yeah. Within a reasonable definition of General Purpose, I would say the ACR will qualify inasmuch as a 6.8mm AR ever would, presuming those kits come out.
 

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I could really careless about the select fire. Every fire fight I've been in with my M4, Not once did i select burst. I can pull the trigger fast enough myself and still maintain accuracy. The weapon is designed for combat. So to me, it makes it an assault rifle, because.
 

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I could really careless about the select fire. Every fire fight I've been in with my M4, Not once did i select burst. I can pull the trigger fast enough myself and still maintain accuracy. The weapon is designed for combat. So to me, it makes it an assault rifle, because.
No Tommy, it is NOT an assault rifle. It is simply a semi-auto rifle and nothing more.:tinhat:
 

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Ancient, I think you're pretty much on the money here. Down the line, high end parts will become available as the platform grows from it's current infancy. Imagine a high end drop in trigger pack with a crisp 3lb break, a firm and fully adjustable PRS stock, and a 20" 1:7 twist Noveske barrel in 6.8 maybe with a brake. That would be a good start in moving this modular platform toward the tack driver that is desired here. It's in that way that it does have the potential to be a true all-in-one rifle. Long range semi-auto, CQB SBR, mid-range battle rifle... It's all there if the platform continues to grow.
 

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A man can dream, Tackleberry. Honestly, just a selection of barrels and a 6.8 kit would justify an ACR to me. I have my 6.5 Swede "Artisan" rifle for driving tacks. And I'm planning a .375 H&H for those cape buffalo. All I want from a semi-auto is the ability to efficiently and reliably kill multiple medium-sized targets out to about 100 yards. 200 only under special cases. It's a backup to those other rifles, a tough knock-around gun for walking, plinking, dealing with vermin, or what have you. The adult version of the old pump .22 you had as a kid.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
The only thing I ever hope to shoot at 400 yards is the tiny central washington coyotes. I'm tired of my brother shooting my coyotes at 250-350 yards with his LR-308.
I certainly don't expect the rifle to shoot 2 inch groups at 400 yards, or hold it's own in competition, even.
I just wanted to know if it would be usable at that distance.
I ask because I have seen animals at that distance that I would have shot, but the Mosin is not up to the task.
Again, just asking. No assumptions here, just trying to get a feel for the platform.
 

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No Tommy, it is NOT an assault rifle. It is simply a semi-auto rifle and nothing more.:tinhat:
ASSAULT RIFLE. I can assault your home, your life, your asshole with it. It is designed to perform combat operations with an assault tactic. It is not a counter sniper, sniper, grand dad's shot gun or hunting rifle. This whole non sense of it not being an assault rifle simply because of the semi auto is a bunch of horse shit. assault has to do with the weapons designed employment.
 

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Nope, youre assaulting the skeet and assaulting the fish with your assault rifle
 
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